Little word. Means a lot. It’s why Cashman has returned. To finish the job. He doesn’t want to leave a job half-finished. It’s personal, as Joel Sherman reports. It’s his legacy.
Interesting stuff that Pete Abraham reports on. I’ll comment in italic, to distinguish my views from Pete’s report. Bold Emphasis in Pete’s report are mine.
“For a long time, we’ve been old and everybody knows it, right?” Cashman said. “For a long time people have pointed it out. So now when you start to fix it, people are ‘Oh my God, you missed the playoffs.’ Off with his head, right? That’s fair, that’s fine, that’s part of this town. I accept it. I’m not running from it.
“I care about my name and I care about how I’m perceived and I care about this franchise. I need everybody that works for me who feels the same way to pull in the same direction. If I wanted something easy, I could do a hell of a lot of other things than run the Yankees.”
I figured 2008 would be a transition year. I thought if the young pitchers came through, 95 wins and 85 if they didn’t. When pressed, I said that I thought the Yanks would get 92 and that the playoffs were iffy. As it turns out, 92 wasn’t enough. You needed 95 wins to be the wild card. That’s what Boston had. The Yanks wound up with 89.
But I love the feistiness and combativeness Cashman displays. PRIDE. Pride of the Yankees is MORE than just a 1942 movie starring Gary Cooper and Theresa Wright. It’s something that cannot be bought. Something some players need, especially those (and we know who) who need to rebound from poor 2008 seasons.
I’ll repeat that. Pride can’t be bought. When you bring players in via trade or free agency, make sure they WANT to be here. We’ve seen the paycheck-cashing mercenaries (Pavano, cough cough). If someone doesn’t want to be here, it shows. Ed Whitson for one. Irabu. Igawa looks like he doesn’t want it. If someone doesn’t want to play for the Yanks, don’t throw the cash at them. Doesn’t matter if it’s CC, AJ, Teix. If they don’t WANT to play for the Yanks, bringing them in will make it worse. Worse. Right, Manny? I mean, talk about a guy who didn’t want to play somewhere and lack of pride. Granted he’s lit up the Dodgers. But the situation with Boston got intolerable. I don’t want players who don’t want to play somewhere. Yes, you must have talent, but professionalism and pride mean something too. The GM is showing some. Now it’s time for some players to do the same.
King, George A. III states that many in the organization believe CC doesn’t want to come to the Bronx. Personally, I think the Dodgers could be the front runners. Wants West Coast, stay in NL, Dodger Stadium always a pitcher’s park…King states AJ, Lowe….and someone I think the Yanks could pursue—-Zach Greinke (Greinke’s brother is in the Yanks’ system at Staten Island).
King also states that Teixeira’s name is barely mentioned. Not that we don’t want him, but they may know something of Teix’s intentions. As I’ve stated, if they don’t want to come…. you have to follow the old line about leading the horse to water.
Cashman wants more players to take the attitude of Mussina, Brian Bruney and Johnny Damon, who turned sub-par 2007 seasons into good 2008 seasons. “We need more of that,” he said. There are a few players who need to listen.
I must admit, I had to laugh when I saw this on Pete Abraham’s blog: The team has changed how it scouts players in Japan, particularly pitchers. Scouts have been changed and more “sets of eyes” have been added to the process. About time, don’t you think? BTW, Yu Darvish the last I knew was 15-4, 1.95. This after 15-5, 1.82 last year. Stick went to Japan. If they are looking at Darvish, they are leaving no stone unturned in checking out every detail—especially after Irabu and Igawa.
Cashman wants Posada at C, Matsui at DH, Damon in LF and a “First baseman playing first.” Doesn’t leave much maneuverability, does it? CF? 2B? That’s basically it. If they are committed to Gardner in CF and Nady in RF, what else is there? You know nothing is changing at SS and 3B. That leaves Robbie.
Cashman thinks Moose is leaning towards retirement. A shaky staff losing 20-9? Ouch. People need to step up.
Bowa signed a two-year deal but has an out. Hmmm… Wonder if he’d want to return. Now there’s a guy to throw money at. Talk about instilling pride.
Some thoughts: I know Joe on YFCR hates the Angels. As for me, no matter what they do in the playoffs, they are a team I want the Yanks to be like. Speed, good defense, solid fundamentals, take advantage of opportunities, gave Vlad some boppers in Hunter and Teix and (and this is big) didn’t hurt the defense by adding Hunter and Teix. Both are good defensive players! Solid rotation, good bullpen, killer closer. A manager who is solid, stable and one of the best in the game. Of course the Angels, like the Yanks, have financial resources in abundance. What’s not to imitate?
23 responses so far ↓
1 yankeemza781 // Oct 2, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Great maybe Phil Hughes and Burnett can be DL buddies. They can have a reality show on fox. Cashman can puff out his chest and say, you can that piece of shit Juan Miranda striking out, He has pride and you see my prize, Chewing on his fingers, cause he’s on the DL again Hughes he also has pride. See the old fart Pettite getting pounded again by the Sox, he has pride. That kind of Pride= another year no playoffs.
2 Mike Sommer // Oct 2, 2008 at 3:32 pm
See reply on previous post. Burnett is problematic, Sheets even more so.
As for Hughes, get back to me when he is 25. That means THREE YEARS. Can’t wait? Tough.
That’s reality. He’s 22.
So you’d like more people here just for the money, is that it? More Mel Halls, Danny Tartabulls, attitudes like Cano’s, Pavano’s? Igawa’s.
You can’t just throw money at it.
Like I said, completely missing the point.
I’m not sold on Miranda, but just so you know, the guy WAS 4 for 10.
3 yankeemza781 // Oct 2, 2008 at 5:57 pm
So who comes in, this team sucks plain and simple with no position help anywhere on the horizon. Do you want to wait for four to five years to see if Jesus Montero can hit more than class a ball. Or are you waiting for Austin Jackson (who is not even that impressive at Tampa) to come up and become the next Bernie Williams. If not Texiera or Sabathia then who? You prefer to throw away the next three years on maybe. Maybe they’ll be good, what if there not. You want five to ten year rebuilds be a Kansas City Royal fan where nobody cares. Great Zach Grienke are you kidding me. You go into next year with Wang, Grienke, Aceves, Hughes(for two weeks before his next DL stint), and pray for rain. Why bother playing next season. Because in two years that stadium will be empty. New York will not tolerate losing teams. People won’t show up to watch fourth place teams. If he doesn’t sign Sabathia or Texiera, this team will suck, People will stop coming to the ballpark and thank GOD Cashmand will be fired.
4 yankeemza781 // Oct 2, 2008 at 6:01 pm
His Idiotic pride stopped the Yankees from having one of the top five pitchers in the game in Johan Santana because he wanted to hold onto a pitcher in Hughes that could possibly be good. It’s like not trading a five dollar bill for a fifty.
5 mike f // Oct 2, 2008 at 7:54 pm
great post mike–one of your best IMO
yes, cashman has made some mistakes- all GMs do but as i posted here the other day the main reason i wanted him to return is because i know he cares deeply about this organization.
right now letting santana go doesn’t look like a good move considering the regression of melky , the failure of IPk and hughes’ propensity toward injuries…i still hope the yankee future is bright for him though.
6 Mike Sommer // Oct 2, 2008 at 8:26 pm
I’d love Santana too, but the Yanks didn’t have $90 million or so coming off the books last offseason. I don’t have the books. I don’t know how high they could go. But there does have to be a limit somewhere. Maybe it wasn’t Cashman’s “idiotic pride”. Maybe it was the numbers in the ledger book.
Let’s not forget that the Yanks, with the luxury cap, are paying $1.42 to the dollar for each free agent. A $100 million contract to Santana is actually $142 million. $42 million going to other ballclubs because of the Yanks being over the cap.
I don’t know who they get. There are rumors that Peavy may be put on the market, and the Yanks obviously would be interested if that is the case.
But how high did you want the Yanks to go salary-wise and price-wise? I (and others I know who have partial season-ticket plans) already pay enough to see a game. You have to give it time. Melky was disappointing. But who’d have played CF if he was dealt? Gardner wasn’t ready yet. Damon in CF? I don’t want that. You would have gotten Santana, but had a huge hole in CF.
Get back to me about Hughes in three years. I’m serious. Three years. There were only four players in the whole AL younger than Hughes this year. Four.
Check Buchholz, Cueto, Homer Bailey. Hughes isn’t the only youngster who had growing pains.
89-73 sucks? I’ve been watching this team since 1966 or so. I’ve seen 14 straight years without a postseason. I’ve seen 1966 and 1967. 1990. I wish they’d have made the playoffs this year, but don’t overreact.
Austin Jackson not that impressive at Tampa? Umm….facts? He was at TRENTON this year and was the MVP of the Eastern League playoffs. He is 21. You must give him time too.
Once again, you don’t get the point. I don’t argue against CC or Teix. The question is, do they want to come to the Bronx? It’s kind of like asking a girl on a date. If she says no, you CAN’T FORCE HER TO DATE YOU.
Do you USE baseball reference.com? HMMM??? The link is on the right of the blog.
Zach Greinke. Turns 25 in just a few weeks. Nice and YOUNG. Salary under club control for a while. Pitched for a lousy KC team and was 13-10 this year. 3.47 ERA. Read that again. 3.47. Just .10 higher than Mussina. Went 202 1/3 IP. 183 K. 131 ERA+. He was just 7-7 in 2007 but had a 3.69 ERA. 127 ERA+.
Yes, his record is just 34-45. The ERA is 4.28. ERA + is 107. That means for his career, his ERA has been 7% better than the league average pitcher EVEN THOUGH HE HAS NOT TURNED 25 yet.
That is promise. If you want younger and cheaper, that is something you look at….and guess what. He’s another guy a team had to be patient with because he was brought up too soon and was 5-17 at the age of 21—worse than Hughes at the same age.
There is no substitute for time. But you can’t rush time.
Let’s see what happens in three years. But panicking over 89 wins? Please.
Take away Rasner, IPK and Hughes (5-18) and the team was 84-55. If the trio of Raz, IPK and Hughes could just have gone 11-12 between the three of them the Yanks would have won 95. Sucks?
7 yankeemza781 // Oct 2, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Young and 25, and has not thrown one meaningfull pitch in the majors. Playing on a team, where no one shows up to watch, no one cares if you lose. No one cares if you win. Then take him and put him in the A.L. on the Yankees. In New York it’s win now win later win, win, win, win. Losing is unacceptable, and you can tell all the Yankees fans who stop showing up to watch them play, Don’t worry in five years this team will be great. It will take the greatest snow job on earth to get people to pay to see this team play. But don’t worry if things keep going your way Grienke will be perfect in NY. Because no one will watch and no one will care.
8 Mike Sommer // Oct 3, 2008 at 8:17 am
Not thrown one meaningful pitch? Tell that to him. Go ahead, I dare you. If he has a web blog, go on it and tell him that.
Do you really think you would get an up and coming pitcher from a good, about to contend team? Dream On.
Ask the people in KC if they care.
Would you take an up and coming pitcher who hasn’t turned 25 yet, is cheap (allowing you to put financial resources into other areas), and who has had ERA’s of 4.26, 3.69 and 3.47 over the last three years? He pitched over 200 innings this year. 202+, two less than Pettitte, two more than Mussina.
Attendance: 4,298,655 (1st of 14). No one has stopped showing up. Nor will they in the next few years.
Ever hear of investing in the future?
Imagine having three youngsters reaching their peak in three years in Greinke, Joba and Hughes….all cheap and all of what would be 27, 26 and 25—which means they conceivably could have 8-10 more years in front of them. That is how you build dynasties. Not by going after the quick fix.
Greinke was 10th in the league in ERA. 6th in K/9 IP. 5th in strikeouts. 10th in strikeout to walk ratio (a big one for me…it’s what first opened my eyes to Joba, and I wrote and talked about him long before others did). He has an almost 3 to 1 K to walk ratio. That’s outstanding for someone not 25 yet. 6th in Adjusted ERA (ERA+).
In his last two years his ERA+ has been 127 and 131. Mussina’s was a 128 this year. We know where that got him. Wang had a 121 in 2007 and a 124 in 2006. Guess what. 19 wins each year.
Now take Greinke and put him on a better hitting team (KC was 12th in the league in runs scored this year). Take his ERA+ (which has been 110 or higher EVERY year of his career except for a soph. jinx year at the age of 21). Put him on the Yanks with that ERA+. We’ve seen what those numbers have done for Wang and Mussina. 19, 19 and 20 wins.
Which is exactly what Greinke could bring.
9 Mike Sommer // Oct 3, 2008 at 9:36 am
I should add that according to your logic, that Scott Kazmir would have fallen into the same category as Greinke. How many “meaningful pitches” did Kazmir throw before 2008? Yet were he available, anyone would have done carthwheels to get him.
10 Jason // Oct 3, 2008 at 11:14 am
Before it gets lost in the following comment, I agree with Mike F. that it’s a really good post, Mike, with good follow-up comments. Without wanting to be self-congratulatory, I happened to leave a comment on Sliding Into Home about something similar, referring in particular to Randy Johnson as falling into the category of hired gun rather than a guy who embraced being a Yankee. I’d add Kevin Brown to that as well, with Brown being one of my absolutely least favorite Yankees ever. For all his faults, Johnson wasn’t great as a Yankee but was pretty good with 34 wins, not chump change but not what the team and we as fans wanted for the heaps of money he got.
But there’s something to what you’re saying about pride, and it makes me respect David Cone all the more–a player who reversed his “hired gun” moniker by coming to the Yanks. He wanted to end that, return to NY and, importantly, wanted to be a Yankee–not just to get a ring. It’s an intangible but an important one, and note the drastic differences in comportment between them. Brown and Johnson were cantankerous on their best days, painfully abrasive on their worst. Their teammates didn’t like or miss them when they were gone, and The Big Eunuch rankled me from the get-go with his refusal to work with Posada. Yeah, what the hell does Jorge know, only dealing with a new staff in 2004 in revolving-door manner after the wholesale changes from 2003, helping lead the team to 101 wins in 2 straight years. Eunuch and Brown were there for hardware, period. Cone, on the other hand, was not just well-spoken but a good spokesperson for the team, was accessible and a stand-up guy, a good mentor to other players as pitcher and person (no small task after his early-career carousing with the talented and under-achieving Mets party bandwagon). He treasured being a Yankee, and fans loved Cone in return, loved the fact that Cone gave everything he had, was accountable and made no excuses. Frank the Sage and I have long agreed that if there was one guy from 1996-1999 to whom to give the ball for a must-win game, it would be Cone–no disrespect to El Duque, Lefty, Clemens, Wells, or Irabu (j/k). Cone was unfailingly tenacious and was money for the Yankees. Flat-out money. He didn’t budge or yield to any team. Ask the Braves in the 1996 and 1999 WS.
As far as Hughes not throwing a meaningful pitch for the Yankees–THEY’RE ALL MEANINGFUL, Mark. How about Game 3 of the 2007 ALDS, when he entered for Clemens and saved the Yankees’ bacon for another day? That in good part was why the Yankees didn’t trade him, because a KID showed that kind of moxie. That instance was only the MOST meaningful.
The point about players wanting to come to NY is an important one not to be overlooked. Not everyone is cut out for it either, even if they say they want to come to NY. I said it right after Johnson’s incident with the photographer upon his arrival in NY, that he would struggle in NY even if he was good on the mound. There’s always a learning curve for players coming to The Bronx, but those who understand ahead of time what’s expected and how to act–and not to–stand a better chance of succeeding and don’t end up punching walls.
2008 was a down year, not a disaster. Nor did the Yankees “suck” this year. They were woefully inconsistent and injury-riddled and still won 89 games. Fans of a good many teams like KC, Pittsburgh, Seattle and others would be absolutely SALIVATING for 89 wins. The AL East was also the toughest division in the game. That doesn’t do everything to salve not making the playoffs. But jeez, how about some perspective about where the Yankees have been the last 13 years, Mark? All that we’ve witnessed as Yankees fans–and there is just a ton to remember and savor–has been nothing short of an honor and privilege. If 2008 is nearly as awful as it gets as sports fans, we’ve had it pretty damn good.
11 yankeemza781 // Oct 3, 2008 at 11:48 am
But we’re not the Royals, Mariners, or Pirates. We are the Yankees we are supposed to go to the playoffs we’re supposed to compete for the World Series every year. Thats why we are the Yankees and there not. USC wins 10 games and goes to a lower non bcs bowl SC fans are not happy. Detroit Red Wing fans don’t go to the playoffs. Ask fans what they think in Detroit. Also KC and San Diego front offices look at those numbers too. Peavy and Grienke are both controlled players and are you ready to give the king’s ransom to get either of them. Plus the huge raise Peavy would want to waive his no trade clause. Between Cano sleepwalking through the season. Giambi’s shit defense at first. Abreu pissing himself every time he got close to the wall. A-Rod puking in his hat every time a semi-important at bat came up. Or Hughes and Kennedy doing nothing for the team. Jeter grounding into a hundred double plays. I’m sorry after all the non playoff team mentally went home for the season hughes and the Yankees played much better. If The Detroit Lions go 8-8 they have a parade, if the Cowboys go 8-8 people are saying the team sucks. It isn’t our birthright to go to the playoffs every year as yankee fans, but it’s pretty close. Once fans see that their team is in short throwing away 09 and 2010. People will stop showing up for games.
12 Jason // Oct 3, 2008 at 12:28 pm
I couldn’t disagree more with the notion that making the playoffs is somehow the Yankees’ birthright. It absolutely isn’t in any way, shape, or form. What all sports fans have the right to expect for their emotional, time, and financial commitments to their teams is that they will do their absolute best to field teams that have as good a chance to win as possible. Nothing more. There is no “right” to the playoffs. Sports are inherently competitive and it’s only through intense competition that they accomplish anything. Let’s not naturalize the success we all want to see happen with the Yankees, or the failures of others deemed lowly franchises, as if those don’t come through lots of effort and struggle. Sometimes teams make good moves and play well, then flounder, for example the Cubs thus far in the playoffs. Explain the idea of birthright to the playoffs to Cubs fans and expect to be laughed out of the room, and fast–rightfully so.
Just because some fans have diminished expectations doesn’t make those diminished expectations natural to them, either. They’re the result of years of having higher hopes ground out of them by mismanagement from the likes of Matt Millen, Al Davis, and others. Think some Oakland Raiders fans in the 1970s and 1980s didn’t sound arrogant like you, Mark? No offense, but that’s what you’re conveying with that notion of birthright–arrogance, and it makes us look bad as Yankees fans. What’s changed for them in the interim? Explain that about the Raiders, please. The Royals had great teams in the 1970s and 1980s as well, but mismanagement and taking a certain failed approach during increasingly intense competitive times in sports changed their fortunes–not some specious notion of birthright or naturalizing the positions of teams as if they were always failures, always lowly. Explain that, please.
Yes, you’re right, some Yankees performed badly at times. Yes, teams and fans should be wary of NL pitchers coming to the AL, for there’s a sizable learning curve in that jump. How about some patience with the team, Mark? We all want them to win, and age catching up with them was bound to happen. That won’t change overnight, but Cashman has revamped the minors dramatically. More needs to be done especially with young, promising position players. But change doesn’t come with a snap of the fingers.
13 Mike Sommer // Oct 3, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Thanks, Jason. Two people I’d love to see in coaching capacities are Cone and Robbie Alomar.
Even in 2000, after a TERRIBLE season, Cone proved to be money in the clutch, if only for one batter. He got Piazza to pop up in Game 4 of the World Series. A game the Yanks won 3-2. Who knows what happens if the Mets would have won that game and evened the Series?
When the Yanks rebuilt in the early 1990s, one thing they did was to also take into account the mental and psychological makeup of the player. Could they make it in New York? Did they have the pride, toughness, self-discipline to want to come and succeed in NY? Could they let some things slide? This is something important and as Jason refers to above, has gotten away from the Yanks as they pursued Brown, the Big Eunuch (nice to know I’m not the only one using or has used that expression), Pavano, and others. It’s something they need to get back to. Kind of like that test (I forget the name at present) that the NFL gives college kids regarding their toughness, adaptiveness, smarts, discipline and the like.
Do you really think people will stop showing up if they see a team that, even if they don’t make the playoffs, shows it has a future? Say the Yanks don’t make the playoffs in 2009 but Joba goes 13-8. Say Hughes starts showing some potential and goes 12-9. I’m just throwing some numbers out there that aren’t overboard but show young players doing ok with promise and potential. Say Gardner is a regular, hits .270 and steals 40 bases. Do you really think, even if the team finishes third again, that the fans won’t show? Never mind the new ballpark. I think the excitement of a Joba or Hughes start or the thrill of seeing Gardner (and in years to come A-Jax, Melancon, Montero…and hopefully some like Coke and Robertson develop) will bring out the fans. That doesn’t even take into account Jeter’s pursuit of 3000 or A-Rod’s 600th. The fans will show if they see hope and promise, and this team isn’t anywhere close to sinking to KC, Seattle, Pittsburgh level as far as the wins go (and staying at that level). That’s going overboard.
Fans will come if they see hope, and let’s face it, this team does have that. This isn’t KC or Pittsburgh who have gone through tons of sub-.500 seasons. This team was 4th in the AL in wins this year despite losing a two-time 19 game winner for half the year, an All-Star C for 2/3 the year, a clutch hitter for 40% of the year and a solid bullpen contributor (Bruney) for a good portion of the year.
There’s no guarantees over any free agents. You gauge their interest. If there isn’t any, then you look into a Peavy or Greinke. Plan A, B, C, D, and all the way down.
This team won 89. It wasn’t 69-93 with no prospects/hope. Far from it.
14 yankeemza781 // Oct 3, 2008 at 12:44 pm
You tell me a Royal fan thinks opening day this is the year we take the central. You find me that fan and I’ll show you a liar. You show me a Yankees team with Juan Miranda at first, Hughes, Aceves and other pitchers cutting there teeth in the majors inconsistant performance third and fourth place finishes and I’ll show you empty Yankee Stadium. But, hey in five years there is a 5 percent chance that the Yankees will be a contender.
15 Jason // Oct 3, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Mike, I think you might be referring to the Wunderlick test. I’d settle for at least an intensive set of one-on-one interviews. Either might have spared us some of the above-mentioned cretins we’ve endured the past few years.
Indeed about Cone in 2000, Mike. He was horrible but got one key out–Piazza (or as Frank the Sage mocks him, “Pizza” or “Pizazza;” actually, The Sage has a whole panoply of very unflattering monikers for Piazza I won’t mention here…).
The attendance figures for the Yankees have actually climbed in inverse proportion to their seasonal success (or lack thereof) the last few years. Only some of that had to do with the closing of Yankee Stadium. For the most part it has been the hope the team instilled, and that it’s become a happening thing/place for so many as a result of the team’s great 13-year run. The attendance figures in 1996 were barely more than 50% of what they were in 2008. The fans will be there, and the team will compete. I have no doubt about either.
Mark, I’ll finish on this by saying you’re drastically understating the Yankees’ chances to contend. Drastically.
16 yankeemza781 // Oct 3, 2008 at 1:00 pm
After three years Rivera will retire no more playoff apperances, Jeter will be just about finished at 38. A-Rod will be 37 and on the decline. Posada will be gone. By then you have a small chance having a contender with no first baseman no closer and a overpaid, slow right side of the infield. The core is almost gone and besides Joba, not a single concrete star in the making.
17 yankeemza781 // Oct 3, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Understating their chances come on. Asking more from Hughes than last year, all of you old players a year older a year worse. Matsui coming back from knee surgery, Damon a year worse, Plus the fact you don’t have a first basemen. This team will compete with the Red Sox. No chance in hell. SORRY, I love the Yankees but be a realist. Even if you purge Cano from the team. How do you convice the O-dog to come to New York.Our pitching is dicey our right side defense is on the decline, We have no first baseman, A catcher coming back from major shouder surgery, but hey in five years this team might be a contender.
18 Jason // Oct 3, 2008 at 1:19 pm
“in five years there is a 5 percent chance that the Yankees will be a contender.” Yes, drastically understating, and you’re doing so just now especially by looking to the future what pitfalls may exist without looking to what solutions may occur, both from within and outside the organization. You say realist, I say pessimist.
Don’t worry, Mark, I don’t blame you. I blame myself for tagging my way into this blue-in-the-face conversation where you’ve ducked pointed, fair questions in Palin-like fashion.
19 yankeemza781 // Oct 3, 2008 at 1:34 pm
What have you asked me. Do I think Hughes is going to be anything better than a decent pitcher. NO. Do I think this team has been collectively worse the last years yes. Do I think this team has any chance of taking down Boston next year. NO. Ok the Raiders have a cap horrible ownership that overpays for players that have never produced. The Royals have a cheap as shit owner who won’t pay to bring people in don’t hold onto their talent don’t care if they win or lose.
20 yankeemza781 // Oct 3, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Please I beg you give me a reason to be optimistic for next season. Tell me how this team takes down Tampa and Boston next year.
21 Jason // Oct 3, 2008 at 4:10 pm
“What’s changed for them [Raiders and Royals] in the interim?” That’s one question that you failed to answer, even just above Mark. It’s a lot more than what you outlined, including poor decisions on coaches and personnel, acquiring problem players, failing to maximize their revenue streams in addition to the things you rightly point out. But yet again, you missed the point, which is that all these things, some of which you rightly acknowledge, illustrate that once-great franchises fell and, with them, their fans’ expectations. That stemmed from historical processes, not some specious notion that some teams naturally belong on top and others on bottom.
Anyone with any perspective would know that Yankees fans recalibrated their expectations in the difficult late 1960s, the late 1980s and early 1990s, rendering your notion that there is some “birthright” Yankees fans have for their team to be in the playoffs, or something “pretty close,” to be thoroughly problematic at best and utterly hopeless at worst. It’s a product of the thirteen-year run of success and playoff berths that, throughout this whole thread and others at The Frieze recently, you’ve failed to appreciate or put into perspective one single solitary bit. Not one stinking bit. If you need to grovel for a reason to be optimistic about the Yankees, after all the various things that have been pointed out here, after a season in which the Yankees won 89 games despite the worst spate of injuries I’ve ever seen on the Yanks, with an offense that scored 179 fewer runs than 2007, the loss in Posada of the guts of the team a starting staff in tatters and by the end cobbled together with cast-offs, tweeners, and rookies, two big trades with three players two of which didn’t pan out at all, despite sending down Melky and seeing positives from Gardner but others such as Coke, Robertson (in spurts), Giese, Sanchez back healthy–that is, if you’re so thoroughly negative, so glass-half-empty and thrown up against a wall about a team that in so many ways struggled with inconsistency, injuries, and change throughout yet STILL somehow won 89 games in the toughest division in baseball, you’re beyond hope. I don’t know if you want to be so cantankerous, or just utterly fail to grasp how not to be, when avenues to a broader perspective have literally been littered around this blog, my blog, and so many others. If you want to or cannot help but remain mired in such a black hole of negativity Mark, wallow in it and enjoy. That’s your problem. Keep shooting spitballs at hot-stove ideas and commentary that Mike, Mike, and I have discussed. Keep swearing about and ranking on players who have barely scratched the surface of their potential, who have barely received a shot in the majors due to their development, injuries, or people ahead of them. Keep verbally rolling your eyes about possible moves the Yankees might make, none of which ever please you as you shoot down everything and advocated nothing. Keep asserting the alleged ebbing of your precious “birthright” of the playoffs for all of one year without appreciating all we’ve witnessed as Yankees fans in the preceding 13 years that made your unconscionable, parochial arrogance possible.
If nothing else, I’m very thankful I don’t share your painfully pessimistic perspective of the Yankees, truly thankful. Those who know me know such harsh responses from me are quite rare but, I’ll assert, in this case certainly justified.
22 yankeemza781 // Oct 3, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Look I would love to see the Yankees go to the playoffs and do well. I regret making a birthright statement about expecting greatness. But can you answer me a couple of questions. 1. Posada is the guts of this team, but at 37 coming off major shoulder surgery do you expect great things from him? 2. After people figured out Cano has absolutely no patience at the plate does he rise up and become a .330 hitter again? Who plays first base for this team? Jeter is only going to get worse from here on out what happens with him? Matsui is coming off another knee surgery what do you expect from him? Your best pitcher last year is 40 and probably going to retire who takes over? Do you have confidence Phil Hughes makes it through a whole season without a DL stint? Can Xavier Nady make up for the loss of Abreu? I love Gardner, but are you positive he can be the every day center fielder? Can Wang come back as good as he was when he got hurt? Can Chamberlain hold up to a full year in the rotation? I don’t wallow in misery, i think Joba is a young Beckett. I love Gardner’s speed and enthusiasm. Phil Coke has been a pleasant surprise to me. And Robertson I think will be solid in relief. But thats alot of question marks.
23 Mike Sommer // Oct 4, 2008 at 10:25 am
See my comment in the ‘Burgh post about the 5% chance. Especially the part in that you have no clue right now what the free agent classes of 2009-2012 will be, how players will do over those four years, who the Yanks could target in those classes to supplement the Monteros, Romines, McAllisters, Austin Jacksons.
Maybe no 1B and Giambi needs to return. Maybe. Something to think about and consider: Maybe, just maybe, next year’s F.A. crop at 1B is better than this one, and if you can’t get Teix, then it’s better to sign Giambi for one year and wait for next year. Would I like Teix? Of course. But see the ‘Burgh comment for the list other than Teix. It makes the Big G look good.
As you win, you weed. You must integrate youth as you are winning. The Yanks did this well in the 1940s and 1950s (just look at the replacements for various players) until the time when Webb and Topping decided to sell and stopped putting money into the farm system, ca. 1960.
Yes, the Wunderlick test is what I was thinking about. Forgot the name. Thanks, Jason.
Mo will need to be replaced, Posada too, eventually Jeter and A-Rod. It won’t be easy. Time will tell what a Melancon or Romine or Montero will do. Maybe they get another superstar. A Mantle to replace DiMaggio. Who knows? The thing is, don’t run them down before they’ve played a game. You don’t know how good they’ll be in five years. Did anybody in 1993 see the Mo of 1996?
Look at 1977. Gullett, Figgy, Hunter, Ellis (soon to be traded for Torrez), Tidrow. And was anyone writing about Guidry in Spring Training? No. Without him, where would they have been? Hunter was terrrible in 1977. Gullett missed 1/3 of the year.
Not a single concrete star in the making? I still believe in Hughes. For God’s sake, he is only 22. Like I said, get back to me in three years about him. Aceves could be an ok #5 SS/LR. Coke may develop into a good lefty reliever if they keep him there. A-Jax is just 21 and had a decent AA season. Montero was a beast at the age of 18 in low A (.326-17-87). Robertson could develop. Melancon. Zach McAllister, 20, could see AA next year. He was 14-9, 2.09 between low A and High A. Sanchez just came off TJ surgery. Let’s see what he does in 2009, same with Brackman. Austin Romine (.300) is just 19. Go to MILB.com and check the stats on the players. Not everyone will develop but there is some nice talent there. But give people chances. Don’t run them down before they are given a chance.
Convincing the O-Dog to come to NY? He has stated that he wants to come. He was very upset at the deal the Mets gave Castillo. He wanted to come to Shea.
I don’t know if the Yanks take down Tampa or Boston next year. I can’t predict injuries. Would you have predicted 97 wins from Tampa this year? I predicted them to be the most improved team in the AL. Meaning maybe 82 wins. No one predicted 97. That’d be like someone predicting the 1969 Mets right after Joe Willie won SB III with the Jets on January 12th of that year. You are also forgetting Toronto, who won 86 and finished 4th. The Jays also have a decent manager again in Cito rather than the clowns they’ve had in recent years. The loss of certain pitchers will hurt the Jays, but still…
We are talking humans, not robots. That is what makes the game fun and frustrating. The .240 hitter who has a career year, hitting .310. The comebacks of a Mussina or Cliff Lee. The injuries to a Wang or Posada. The utter collapse of a D-Train or Andruw Jones. The person you expect to hit .300 hitting .210 instead. The human element.
There are no certainties. It’s why you play the games. You look for potential and don’t know the future.
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